AMAN KAUR: This is The Executive Edge. I’m Aman Kaur.

Today, I’m sitting here with my close friend Lori Rietschlin, President and COO of Riccobene Associates Family Dentistry. You’re going to learn about anchored leadership and staying true to her North Star.

LORI: My name is Lori Rietschlin. I’m the President and Chief Operating Officer at Riccobene Associates. I’m here on The Executive Edge with Dr. Aman Kaur, and I’m excited for you to hear our episode.

AMAN: Thank you so much, Lori, for being here.

LORI: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

AMAN: I know you have just gotten here, so I appreciate you making time for us this morning in your busy day.

With The Executive Edge, we want to get to know the people behind the scenes—not just the COO or president who leads Riccobene, a great group that’s constantly growing. You have one of the most respected DSOs, so congratulations, first, for doing that.

Looking from the outside, you’ve taken on a founder-led DSO with the founder’s name on it, and now you are practically running it day in and day out, taking it through its first major transaction and all of these things.

I want everyone to get to know Lori, the person behind it. Tell me about yourself. At what time in your life did you know you were going to one day be leading a large group like this? Did you even know?

LORI: Gosh, that’s a great question. I don’t know if I knew. I think it’s just evolved over time to where I am very fortunate to be where I am now.

I’ve always been a very ambitious person, so I guess it’s not shocking to me that this is where I am now. But at the same time, I don’t know that 20 years ago I set out to be in this place. Not even 20 years ago. I mean, how old do you think I am?

I actually started my career as a social worker. I have a master’s degree in social work, and I never intended to be in business administration or any kind of operations.

I moved into operations in a healthcare setting and did that for about 10 years in a different sector than dentistry. Then I had a dentist founder who really took a risk on me and made me the COO of a small group in California, Access Dental.

At the time, I didn’t realize what a gift that was. I was just super excited to move into a different part of healthcare, learn something new, and be able to impact people in that setting.

Now, in hindsight, knowing what I know about the industry, first of all, I was so lucky to get into the DSO space when I did—especially on the operations side and not the clinical side—and to learn from him. He was a great mentor.

I also didn’t realize at the time that sometimes working for founder dentists is challenging. He had a family-centric business, so a lot of people within his family worked for the company, and that creates its own set of challenges.

Learning all of that—and the fact that he was really interested in not being part of the operation anymore—I didn’t realize how much autonomy I had and how much knowledge I was granted. It was really a blessing.

Moving on to where I am today, I worked for a couple of other DSOs in the private equity space, did some consulting, and then came to Riccobene. Everything has just built on top of each other to where I really feel that I was prepared and pretty much perfectly suited for this role.

I think that had I not had all the experiences I’ve had prior, working for someone like Dr. Riccobene would have been really challenging. He’s a founder dentist, and he’s very Italian and opinionated and passionate and loud. He’s an amazing person, but it takes someone who can truly partner with him and say, “I don’t agree with you. Let’s look at it this way,” and have that back-and-forth.

I think everything I’ve learned up to now has put me in a good place to do that.

AMAN: You’ve shared so much. When you were young, you went into social work, and now you’re leading private-equity-backed companies that have to transact profitably. Did you want to be a social worker?

LORI: I thought I did.

AMAN: Why did you think that?

LORI: First of all, I think, as is true for many of us, I was much more of an idealist when I was younger. I kind of wanted to save the world.

I enjoy one-on-one relationships with people and digging into what’s happening, so I think that was attractive to me about that field.

What I learned about myself when I was in my 20s and moved into operations was, number one, I could not make enough money as a social worker for that to be fulfilling to me.

AMAN: How old were you when you knew that?

LORI: Probably 25.

AMAN: Wow.

LORI: I just knew that it wasn’t going to be satisfying for me. Not because so much of greed, but ambition. One of the ways that I like to be rewarded is with money, and that’s just not a thing in the world of social work.

Part of it was that, and then part of it was being given the opportunity to move into an operations role and finding that everything I thought about myself—especially as a girl growing up, that I’m not good at math and I can’t do math and I’ll never be able to do this or that—none of those things were true.

Learning in that first operations role that I’m actually really good at those things was impactful.

The last thing I would say is that I’ve really learned as a leader that I’m still a social worker. The people who report to me, the people who report to them, and all of the people who work in the company need to have their basic needs met. They need to feel cared for. They need to feel like they’re here for something bigger.

All the things you would work on with someone as a social worker are the same things we should work on with people as leaders and provide for people as leaders.

I really don’t think they’re that different. It’s just that there’s this whole other component about accountability and performance, driving to metrics, and all the things that are required of an operator.

But I love all those things.

AMAN: What you said is profound. Something I love about you, Lori—and I don’t think maybe you know it—is that you make really good decisions. You deliberate, but you also make them quickly. Were you always like that?

LORI: Definitely. I’ve definitely slowed down my decision-making.

It’s been a challenge and something I’ve had to work on my whole career because I do tend to make quick decisions. Sometimes it’s hard for people to keep up and be able to execute properly because it’s like, “Okay, let’s do this, and let’s do that.”

I think that’s true for a lot of us in leadership roles. It’s like, “Okay, keep up. I want to move on.”

I’ve had to become more cognizant of the fact that people need time to adjust to change. They need to understand what I’m looking for. They need to understand the vision, and there needs to be some time to let that ruminate. I’ve had to work on that a lot.

I think also, 30 years ago, my decisions were based on my gut. I made decisions based on feelings. Fortunately, I think I have good intuition, but I’ve also learned throughout my career that I have to balance that with what the data says and make more thoughtful decisions by looking at more pieces of information than just what feels right.

AMAN: Data is good when you’re making business decisions, but I feel—and I’m sure you know it too—that life is made up of those decisions where there is no data.

They end up shaping the entire trajectory of our future and who we become.

Is there a decision in your life that you feel was the best decision you made, or that led you to your goals or beyond your dreams? If you were to say what that one decision was, what comes to mind?

LORI: I think the decision to leave the part of healthcare that I had grown in as an operator and move into dentistry was the most impactful decision of my career.

Part of it was opportunistic in the sense that I applied for something that I really wasn’t qualified for, and I was able to build a relationship with that gentleman, and he brought me on board.

But I think taking the initiative to say, “I’m really not happy in this sector of healthcare,” was important. I worked in long-term care. It was open 24/7. It was exhausting. It was very draining because of the type of patients and families and staff. There are a lot of things about that industry that are really taxing.

Although I loved the people in the industry, it was not good for my family.

Having the insight and wherewithal to say, “This isn’t what’s going to be right for me long term,” was definitely the thing that’s had the biggest impact on my overall career.

AMAN: Lori, I’ve seen you being very authentic. You’re very authentic as a person, and it comes through in your one-on-one interactions. It comes through in the way you lead.

It’s very hard to be authentic. Everyone says you’ve got to be your authentic self, and sometimes people think being your authentic self means putting every emotion out there, but that’s not who you are.

You’re very measured, but still very authentic. How do you do this? It’s very hard.

LORI: We talk about core values, and I think one of my personal core values has always been transparency and authenticity.

In the last 15 years or so, one of the words I would use to describe myself—or what I really firmly believe in—is alignment.

I think it’s so important for people to be able to be the same person whether they’re at home, at work, out with friends, or no matter what they’re doing in their life. To always have that alignment, where I’m not changing who I am based on my audience.

There’s certainly a different level of professionalism required depending on the audience. That’s where I think I can tame that. Certainly, when I’m at home with my family, I might not have the same level of professionalism that I’m going to have at work.

But at the same time, I am the same person.

I think I’ve become that through some hard lessons in life, and I’ve been very open about sharing those with other people because I believe that, as a leader, it’s very lonely.

It’s very scary to share those parts of yourself that you feel might make you less employable, less attractive as talent, less respected, or all of those things. I certainly understand that fear.

But at the same time, every time I have put myself out there and been authentic, I have seen the benefit of that because it allows other people to do the same.

It’s also just who I am. I don’t want to have to be a different person depending on the audience.

AMAN: I think you’re right. Be yourself, but maybe have a different level of professionalism or mannerism in how we present ourselves.

What is that one thing you’ve shared with your team that makes you the most human? Did it bring them closer to you? Did it make them respect you more or challenge you more? What comes to mind?

LORI: I’ll answer the second part of your question first.

At Christmas this year, my team of about 14 people got together, and they all wrote me letters. They basically said, “We want you to draw one of these during the year when you’re having a hard time, to remind you of how much we care about you.”

AMAN: That’s giving me goosebumps.

LORI: Yeah. And of course, I didn’t do that. I read them all.

But I will do that as I need to throughout the year.

The message was so consistent around one of the things they appreciate about me: my willingness to be who I am with them. That has really helped them learn how to be better leaders with their own teams and how important it is for people to know who you are.

The most impactful thing I’ve shared with them is that I’m clean and sober from drugs and alcohol, and I have been for 14 years.

I was a COO of a DSO when I got sober. It was very scary, and it was very hard because I didn’t know what would happen with my employer. I didn’t know what would happen to my career.

But I did know that I was going to die if I didn’t.

I was very unhealthy, and I was very unwell mentally. I was in the throes of addiction, which is really hard to explain if you haven’t been there.

As an aside, one of the things I really love about Dr. Kesler is that he’s so open about his own journey in sobriety, and he and I definitely have that in common.

That’s something that I think helps people realize that I’m not going to be afraid of who I am. I’m not ashamed of that. It’s brought me to who I am today. It’s made me a better leader.

It’s part of who I am. It’s a big part of who I am spiritually and psychologically, and my own mental health.

But it is very hard to share.

AMAN: And you did this while you were the COO of a DSO?

LORI: I did.

AMAN: Wow. What a journey.

This is your third founder you’re working for, right?

I’ve always noticed they end up giving you so much authority. It’s very hard. I’ve worked with founders and been one myself. It’s like giving your baby to someone and trusting them with it.

What do you do to gain trust with other people’s babies?

LORI: I will say that the second one I did not stay with very long because that person wasn’t able to do that.

I think it’s hard for founders. It’s so hard to hand over their baby. I think there are a lot of founders out there who say they’re ready to do that, but they’re not.

When I met Dr. Riccobene, I asked him probably more questions than he asked me because I really needed to understand that he was ready.

I know that I won’t be happy if there’s a tug-of-war.

I feel like he really was ready, and that makes a huge difference.

Also, one of the most important things he and I were vetting each other about was whether or not we were aligned at that core-value level. We really are.

We’re very different people. We have very different personalities and very different skill sets, but we really care about each other and what each other cares about. I think that allows both of us to trust each other.

There was probably at least a year after I started with him where my direct reports, the dentists, the office managers—everybody in the company—texted him whenever they were upset about something.

I would hear from him, “So-and-so says this. Is this what happened?”

It took me a little while to trust him that he was going to respond in a way that was supportive of me and not undermine me.

Now, people don’t really do that. Sometimes he gets a text here and there, but over five years we’ve obviously made lots of changes.

I think trusting each other is something that’s built over time. You can’t just walk in and expect a founder to trust you. It’s not going to happen.

Trust is earned. You have to prove through experience that you’re thoughtful and that you’re going to consult.

I probably consulted with him on every decision I made for the first six months because, number one, I wanted to hear what he thought. I also wanted him to understand my thought process.

One of the things I love about Riccobene as a whole is that we have a mantra in our company that he has been a proponent of: We don’t really care if you make the wrong decision, as long as you thought through it and did it for the right reasons.

I needed him to understand why I would make the decisions that I made.

There have been many decisions I’ve made that he disagrees with, but he understands why I did it, and so he still trusts me.

AMAN: You nailed it.

Being a founder myself, I need to trust the intention. I can deal with an undesirable outcome and rectify it because most situations can be fixed.

But once you start doubting someone’s intentions, then that’s not the person you want to pass your baby on to.

It takes blood, sweat, and tears to start something. Those are the things you’ve done to earn founders’ trust. It’s such a good message.

We talked a lot about how you’ve been running Riccobene and going through one of the major transactions Riccobene has gone through.

Everyone says change is constant. I’ve seen you manage change with the least amount of turbulence. I’ve seen you make very big changes, but there’s always very little chaos around the change you’re making.

Tell me, how do you architect those changes? What are the things you put in place to get those done?

LORI: First of all, I don’t know that everybody on my team would agree with your assessment that it’s not chaotic. Change is always chaotic.

One of the things that’s really important as a leader is to surround yourself with people who do things that you can’t do.

I won’t say that I’m not good at managing change, but at the same time, I need people who can really dig in and understand the details of what that means.

I have people around me who are very good at understanding what training needs to happen, what meetings need to happen, what collateral we need to make, and all the things that come with change.

They’re also really thoughtful about what to expect and educating me about what my expectations should be.

When I say, “We’re going to do this thing, and we’re going to have it done by the end of Q1,” I have people around me who can say, “I don’t think so. Maybe the end of April, but it’s probably not going to be the end of Q1.”

I think that’s probably the key to the success of change management for me: making sure I have the right team around me to actually manage the people in the field who have to feel it the most.

AMAN: Lori, what do you do to keep yourself sharp? How do you keep yourself so bright?

LORI: Well, I have a 12-year-old, so that helps keep me young.

I spend a lot of time relaxing on the beach and being in the sun. I really value my alone time. I’m a very introverted person, so I need that time to recharge.

I read a lot of books.

I’m the type of person that when I am done working, I’m done working. I don’t want to talk about it. I don’t want to think about it. I want to completely disconnect and be able to rest.

That is so important.

I don’t think everybody is wired the same way, but for me, it’s really important to be able to do that. Even if it’s just one day a week that I don’t open my laptop and can really disconnect, it’s super important for me.

AMAN: Is there a book that you love or go back to?

LORI: I would say there are a couple of people I go back to, and they’re very different.

One would be Peter Drucker, who’s kind of a guru in the management world. The other would be Brené Brown. She’s also a social worker who talks a lot about vulnerability and authenticity, and that really resonates with me.

AMAN: Have you gotten anything wrong that you’re willing to share with us?

LORI: Yeah, I’m sure. Many, many things.

AMAN: What’s one where you’re like, “Dang, I wish I could go back and fix it”?

LORI: I don’t have a specific example that I can pull out and talk about, but I will say that the ones that are the most painful are when I don’t feel like I hired the right person for a position.

Number one, it’s so disruptive to the organization when you have to recognize that and make another change.

Number two, it’s so disruptive to that person when they’ve made this huge change.

That’s happened to me many times—when I thought I was going with the right person, but it just wasn’t the right person.

AMAN: You’re leading thousands of people and a large team, so I’m sure that’s going to continue to happen.

LORI: Surely, but I’m not hiring them all.

AMAN: As we’re closing, let’s go back to Lori, who went into social work. Had you known what you know now, what advice would you have given yourself? Would you have done anything differently in how you led your life?

LORI: I think I would have told my younger self just to slow down a little bit and not be so stressed about accomplishing all the things.

I was one of those people who, by the age of 30, was going to have my master’s, be married, and have my kids. By the age of 40, I was going to be making this much. By the age of 50—I just had it all mapped out.

If I had given myself a little bit of permission to slow down, I might have known myself better and known the type of career that would be really fulfilling to me, and made some different decisions.

But all that said, I’m also a firm believer that had I made any different choices, I may not be sitting here with you.

I definitely don’t have regrets from the perspective that I love where I am now. It’s all brought me to a great place.

But I was definitely very ambitious and very determined.

AMAN: You’re very silently ambitious and very determined.

I’ve seen you. You started with Women in DSO five years ago. You’re on the board now. I’ve seen you participating with AI very progressively.

How do you keep making good decisions? You’re saying here that you’re slowing down, but I feel you’re making more impactful decisions.

How do you pack so much punch into whatever you do? You have a lot of punch in everything you do.

LORI: I guess it’s just maybe age and experience. I don’t know what my secret is, if I have one. It’s not a secret that I’m intentionally keeping.

AMAN: I was hoping to get to that because I feel like you do have this secret sauce. You make very few mistakes.

LORI: I don’t know. Maybe you just don’t hear about them.

I feel like I do make mistakes. When you’re doing so many things, you’re going to make mistakes. There are definitely missteps.

AMAN: Is there anything you think you have mastered that you’d love to share with us that helps you make those good decisions?

LORI: I guess you have to have a level of self-confidence and an awareness of what’s important.

I think keeping sight of a North Star—whether that be the organizational goals, core values, or whatever that is depending on the decision—is important.

If you get too lost in the details, I think it’s easy to lose your way.

I also think that I’ve had a lot of experiences, good and bad, that have taught me things that I have to draw on.

I think it’s probably a combination, but I don’t have a secret.

AMAN: I have to tell you, I’m so excited to have you on the board. I think it’s going to be an amazing five years, and you’re going to work with me to make sure we take this mission to the next level and keep us all in a straight line.

What do you want to accomplish with Women in DSO?

LORI: I love Women in DSO because I love the mission so much.

I think it’s super important to take the young generations of women who are just coming into the DSO world and help shepherd them into the roles that you and I have.

I think it’s so impactful for people to be able to see those career paths and know that they’re possible.

I think it’s so easy to look at other industry organizations that exist and feel like those people don’t look like me, and to feel disempowered by that.

I love the fact that we exist to show a different perspective.

One of the things my mom used to say to me all the time was, “Lori, you can’t grow up and have it all. I know you think that you’re going to have this great career, and you’re going to get married, and you’re going to have kids, but you can’t have it all.”

I always did not believe that.

I can.

AMAN: And you do.

LORI: Yeah.

I think it’s important to have a place where people can see that—that they don’t have to sacrifice. They can have it all.

AMAN: Please continue to help build this organization so that it outlasts all of us and all of our work.

LORI: Yeah. I’m excited about what we can build together.

AMAN: Me too.

You’ve led the Education Committee. It’s been amazing to see. I feel we have the best content in the industry.

What do you have in mind for the Education Committee for next year?

LORI: I think the Education Committee still has a lot of runway in terms of impact—being able to really catalog the information, make it accessible as a library, continue to build it, and continue to bring in thought leaders from the industry.

Whether it be the blog committee or either of the subcommittees managing the online presence, people get so excited when they finally just make the leap and do it because it’s so rewarding, and they realize they can do it.

I think continuing to build that population of people who we can showcase is so impactful.

AMAN: I have to tell you, I’m very grateful again and again.

I know you were the Leadership Award winner, but you’re leading the Leadership Alum Club, the breakouts, and then you’re leading the whole committee.

You do a lot more than just running your company. You do so much for the industry.

LORI: Thank you.

AMAN: Congratulations. I feel so good and so fortunate to be sitting next to you.

LORI: Thank you. Likewise.

AMAN: As I wrap it up, let’s say everyone forgets everything we talked about. What do you want them to remember?

Someone doing social work, entering the dental industry, feeling at the crossroads of their career or their life—like you, leaving addiction behind and sharing that so openly and making it your strength.

What do you want people to leave with?

LORI: I think a good message to end with, from my perspective, is to look at the areas of your life where you don’t feel alignment and focus on those.

If you don’t feel like you’re truly able to be your best self at work, why is that?

If you feel like you’re not able to be your best self at home, why is that?

What can you do to allow yourself to be that?

Is it health? Is it being more confident? Is it growing more skills?

What is it that will allow you to really meet your own potential?

AMAN: What you’re saying is so bold and so hard to do.

LORI: Very hard to do.

AMAN: Very hard to fix it.

Well, thank you so much. No wonder you’re doing so well, because you are a bold leader.

LORI: Thank you.

AMAN: Thank you. I appreciate your time.

LORI: Thanks.